Career Renewal: Finding Purpose Mid-Career

Career change doesn’t have to be a leap into the dark. With executive-turned-consultant Jill Allemang, we walk through a clear, human, and repeatable path for mid and late career renewal—beginning with the honest question, “Do I really need to change?” and moving into “How do I change?” and “How do I stick with it?” Jill’s small‑group approach turns reflection into momentum, letting you surface what you already know, protect your privacy, and borrow courage and ideas from peers walking the same road.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Hello everyone and welcome to Boardless Executive Live. I have pleasure today in introducing Jill Allerman. Jill is an experienced business executive and moved on to consulting. Today we're going to look at what Jill is doing working with executives who are in the process of renewing their careers either in what you'd think of as mid-career or late career. Jill, a special welcome to you.

Why A Career Change Program

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Thanks very much, Andrew. It's been great to reconnect with you actually for this conversation. So thank you for that. I developed a very specific program over the years which had a lot to do with the career change I made right after you and I first worked together, where I had found that when you want to make a career change, there are quite a lot of tools and techniques available. I use them for some of my other work, but they weren't very accessible or easy to use in an efficient way for individuals. So after I had quite a lot of questions actually about what made me think I could change my career in this way, I put them together in a in a way that's more accessible. And the thing is, if we really look at it, we all change our careers. Almost everybody changes a career. You and I have the example. I guess a lot of people listening here have it. I always say, I wish I had known what I wanted to do when I started, but I'm not sure very many of us actually know whether to start what we're really going to want to do or be best for us.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

That's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yeah. Yeah. So that's what the program is about. And it does tend to start mid to late career when people start to try to sort that out.

unknown 1:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Well, as you say, we both have gone through the same experiences, but I think it certainly helps to have some good advanced thinking and preparation for this. And I guess that's where your story starts, doesn't it?

Three Phases Of Change

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah. So what we try to do is help people to organize their thinking about a career change. And my method and my approach to everybody is I assume you're an experienced adult, that you've already shown the ability to make a lot of good decisions in your career. Obviously, that's how you got to where you are. But we're going to try to boost that with helping you think through the process. So we put it into three phases. We we have a couple of interactions around do I really need to change? Because often, especially at mid-career, you're not really sure, but you have this kind of growing feeling that maybe you want to have a change. That's very normal. And then we look at our middle process, which is okay, how do I change? Those are the real fundamentals of getting started and getting a change, going in a direction. And then finally we talk about how are we going to stick with the change. Because that's actually often for many people one of the more challenging situations. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

And starting with, hey, do I really want to change and why?

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

So yeah, so we really do it in six modules, but it's basically the three fables.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yeah. Okay, so I come to you for some advice. I would start with thinking about I've got this nagging feeling, or perhaps I've just been made redundant, which is not an unusual thing these days. But people in at a particularly difficult moment in their lives.

Sorting Out Where You Stand

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Yes, yes, exactly. And I think uh here uh we start by looking at how is it that I sort out where I am. A lot of times it's this uncertainty or this ambiguity about how I'm how am I going to go get the next job. So we start by having you kind of sort out what you already know, which is often more than you think. It's just buried some down somewhere down below, or you haven't taken the time to pull it out a little bit. We look at how you've made your decision so far, because might I add, usually the decisions you made so far are on some good track that tell you something about yourself. And so we can look at that as well. And so often we find that even if you just start there, how do I sort out where I stand today? That's already a sense of relief because you find out that you're a little bit further than you thought you would.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Yeah. Well, you I put that a little more in a more basic fashion. I simply say you've survived so far, so you must be doing something right.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

100% agree with that. Yeah.

unknown 4:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

And the process then takes quite some reflection for the individual, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

It does. Now, our method of reflection is maybe different than some. I want to say that. It's I study learning and organizational change, actually as part of my own career change. And I really believe that we should try to lighten things up and try not to let people dwell on things too long. We try to get out of you what you have already as quickly as possible. So it is reflective. But we always work with your own information. And something, Andrew, that you and I've talked about, I work almost always with small groups, almost always, not so much one-on-one. Because with a small group, you can hear actually examples from other people that are interesting that make you feel less alone in the process. And the method we use says you never have to tell anybody your confidential information. I have you do some things with that first. And then when we debrief, it's up to you if you want to speak. And it's also up to you to say how much. And that way you can work with yourself as the primary tool of your own reflection. But also hear examples at a at a higher level from others, which gives you new ideas. And I think that's a great way to find solutions, is doing it together.

Confidentiality And Long-Term Impact

SPEAKER_00 5:28

It's comforting and stimulating what you're saying, Joe. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And is there an example where this process has been particularly energizing for an individual? Is do you have an example of that perhaps that you can share? Without getting into the confidential aspects of it.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah, in truth, I don't always hear during the facilitation where somebody stands, because I really allow that to be confidential. I can tell from the energy that the group brings to it if we're having success with the conversation. Usually if I hear that it helps somebody, it will be a random message that I receive months or years later saying, hey, I still have this. I did this, I implemented that, I got it back out again two years later and looked at it again. That's how I know that somebody's had a success. And I think different than what you do, Andrew, I'm not trying to place people in roles. I'm helping, I'm trying to help people find a direction so they can go to somebody like you to help place them in the right role.

Human Pace And Not Rushing

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Right. So a lot of our stuff is actually where you're le leaving off.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

100%.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

You've had enough time now to grieve, perhaps, over a major event in your life. You've had time to think it through. We encourage people not to rush into anything because it's a human process at a human pace, and that's where they're going to spend the time with you. But then also asking people simply to reflect. Are they sure they want to come and do something different? What stage are we talking about when you're talking about mid-career and late career? Can you maybe help define that?

Defining Mid And Late Career

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah, sure. So I think mid-career is typically when you've gained 10 or 15 years of experience, is often these days. I mean, of course, it's very individual, but that's often where we start to see people ask questions about is this really what I meant? Is this really enough? Is this meaningful? Do I have enough purpose in it? Often by then the person has added some structure around their lives that maybe they didn't have when they started, a family, a place to live, other things. And that's where the first question often comes. It's a why did I start where I started? And now that I have some experience, is it what I expected? So that's the first stage. Later, career, I think, is really interesting, maybe because I'm reaching it, but also because I think it's changed so much in the last 20, 30 years. And here you have 20 or 30 years of experience. And you've gone through the stage of how meaningful or not meaningful is your career, but you start to see we're going to live longer lives, we have a longer period of time, we want to be doing something meaningful with our lives. You hear more and more examples of people who are not really crazy about the idea of retiring at you know, mid-sixties, whenever it is in your country, but also even who are concerned financially that they can't. I think this is a real comment here. Absolutely. So, yeah, and so here I think it becomes this question not only just of purpose going forward and quite honestly, being willing to look at it going forward because it's a bit of a big change, right? From what you've been doing. But also it's how are you gonna stay relevant? How are you gonna stay connected? And I think for us it's gonna be about finding new solutions. I think you see, I actually really like it because I enjoy change, right? But I think all of these new solutions coming for those of us who are baby boomers or millennials now in this big wave, we're gonna have so many more options, but we might have to find them ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Indeed. I I think you know, when you're talking about late career, 20 or 30 years experience, there's a good chance that we need to start thinking about that as mid-career. You know, you have quite a period of life during which you might well want to contribute socially and economically to the world and to stay engaged with what's happening in the world. Yeah. Which is what a lot of people with the energy and hopefully good health have an opportunity still to do.

Purpose, Relevance, And Longer Lives

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Yes, and to ignore the stereotypes a little bit. I think if anyone listening to this podcast would just look around a little bit later at examples in the media, you're going to find many, many examples of people doing exactly what you say. I just I listened to a podcast yesterday on business building, and I I didn't realize it, but the person they happened to interview yesterday had started her business in her mid-50s and she was still the CEO at 78 because she wanted to be. So I think we're gonna see much more of that.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Yeah. And so how does that when you're taking this a step further, let's say in the second or third phase of your of your process, what am I seeing that's different in there? What are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Well, I think a lot of the questions become different. So what you see is that people start to feel there's a shorter timeline. You know, we do become aware I only have this many possible years to make something happen. So I think we become more conscious. That you already see that starting at 30, but boy, that becomes much more clear when you're when you're further along. And I think there are questions where I think maybe you've had expectations of this period of your life, and now you want to relook at it because now you're here and now you see what the world is around you. Like when you're mid-career, we hear people ask about this meaningfulness, relevance, is this good enough for me? Is it what I expected? And now as you get older, you're worried about not being seen as important anymore. Do I matter anymore? Do my skills and expertise matter anymore? And I think it's up to us to make sure that that does matter and maybe to think ahead a little bit too. How do I build myself into a network where I'm eye-level with other people who see the world with the same experience and and not always the same opinions, hopefully different opinions, but the same uh level of experience.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Yeah. And what do you're advising people to stay relevant, Jill? Are there any tips, any specific advice you give to people of how they should go about thinking that through?

Staying Relevant Through Tech And Curiosity

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Yeah, sure. And there people stay relevant by staying connected in networks and always being curious. These are the things you hear. But I want to add one thing because I was just leading a tech company until earlier this year, I spent five years leading a young tech company. And what I want to say, and I do say to all of my peers now, probably drives them crazy sometimes, we must always learn the next tech. One of the things we need to do to stay relevant is recognize that that technology that changes so quickly is going to keep changing, and we're all perfectly capable of staying up with it. And we should. Because if we want to stay connected in the world, then we have to know where that enabling technology that's like the water underneath our lives, right? Where that is. And so I just want to encourage all of us, find some part of tech that interests you and follow it.

Interest, Experimentation, And Transition

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah, indeed. I think this aspect of being interested by something is the most important point that you've raised here, in the sense that you know, you need to discover for yourself what really interests you, what really stimulates you, that makes your eyeshine, you know, what is that, and then build on that and explore it. Because at the end of the day, people like other people that have a light in their eyes, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:39

And you know what I would add to that too, when you get to this stage of where you're making a change. One thing we talk about is this idea of a transition. If we don't know what it is that interests us yet, let's just say you you somehow reach this later career stage and you're not really sure because you enjoyed the work. And it's great to experiment because there's the there is this stage between in transition. You let go of something, you're going to transition out of it. That happens also if you're forced to change a job for some reason. And before you start the new thing, you're in between letting go and and picking up the new thing, is the place you're more likely to experiment. You are more likely to try things that you're not sure if you will like or not. You will probably also be more uncomfortable. That's the that's at least what the research says. It's not as comfortable, but you're the most creative and the most willing to try something new. And so that's something I would just emphasize.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Well, that's very good advice, uh Jill. I think too few people take the time to do that. And hopefully, particularly at different difficult times, there is a still a moment where maybe financially you're okay for a short time. You know, you can still pay the bills for another six months. Yeah. Take that time to turn on to something that's going to really stimulate you. And there's a simple basis for that. If it stimulates you, the chances are you're going to do it well. If you do it well, people want to pay you for what you're doing. So you will also handle the economic side of things.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Yeah, very good. That's a nice way to look at it, actually.

Phase Three: Perseverance And Baggage

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Yeah. Well, so Jill, well, so here we are now gone through stage two. We're kind of plotting our way forward. What happens at stage three?

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yeah, so stage three is when you need to stick with it. For me, this is one of the defining stages because we carry with us a lot of uh we call it when we do it in our program, we call it baggage. I call it all of these things weighing you down because you fears, you know, the things that you that you didn't like before, and it weighs you down. And so we try to lighten that load up, and then we try to talk about how this change is really going to go. How long is it really going to take? Most of the time we try to underestimate that time period. And and we can wish it to go faster, but usually it doesn't. Also, we we spend a lot of time talking about what about the other people around us? What about those people who don't understand the change we're trying to make and trying to find a way to be open and communicative, but at the same same time, keep a hold of yourself in it. How do you keep yourself motivated and not give up too soon?

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

When I look back sometimes on things that I've done once or twice, I look back and I say, Well, you know, I didn't take my own advice, I needed to stick with it longer. There's going to be ups and downs while you're going through, and you have to persist.

Support Systems And One Life To Live

SPEAKER_00 15:37

But we're very often not inclined to listen to them. Uh being a third party sometimes is an incredible help.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

And you do see that it's really helpful when somebody has a partner next to them who is supporting them through something they really know that they want to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Yeah. There is there is another aspect to it, which is a little bit more of a selfish aspect, is that at the end of the day you only live once. You owe it to yourself to get the maximum pleasure, joy, and also excitement from what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Sticking at something you're doing and you're not enjoying is really a way to a very, very slow and dull life. So what you're doing in this process, I think, is incredibly uplifting. There are too many people around in industry today who say, Well, I've only got another ten years to go. I'll try and hang on to my seat till then, which beats some pretty miserable time. But what I would call rather disgracefully the rat catchers, they will get you in the end, then you won't get to your ten more years till retirement. So it's up to you to do something about it. It sounds like the groups that you are building, Jill, ink, are really incredible places to get comfortable with making these changes.

Building Momentum For Renewal

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Well, you know, you gave it the name uh for this talk of renewal, career renewal, and I think that's right. And I think we underestimate the minute you start to get that little bit of confidence, or even better, it's what you said, that excitement, like, oh, I'm really interested in this. In fact, I try to make that idea go away and it keeps something back, right? Because I'm really interested.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Once you start that in small steps, if you just focus on those, take the next step, then you'd be surprised how quickly that momentum for renewal grows inside yourself.

How To Contact Jill

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Absolutely. Well, uh somebody listening or watching us today would like to make contact with you, your email address.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yeah, which I'm happy to have just a sounding board discussion with people.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Yeah, indeed. And a good sounding board is always incredibly important before you take your first steps here. They can also get you on LinkedIn, I think, Jill can't be.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Yes, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

I think the help that you provide in this process is in incredibly valuable. Thank you again for making the time for us with Borderless Live.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

And to you, Andrew. Thank you.